Wouldn't it be nice if once, just once, the filth known as the GOP would be honest about what they want? Let's take a look at their latest attack on the American citizen, the new poll tax.
The new poll tax is taking place in many red states. In Florida they call it "voter purge" which is a surprisingly honest term considering the Gov. of Florida, Rick Scott, is a known Medicare fraudster. It is of course the new found requirements for voters to "prove" they are qualified to vote in an election.
A quick factual review. The 24th Amendment from the US Constitution states:
Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Ok, so then what exactly constitutes a "poll tax" then? Well, like "right to bear arms" this is one term that is not completely defined in the pertinent document. If voting requires a photo ID that you must purchase, that is in effect a poll tax.
"Requiring a photo ID is a poll tax, because if you don’t have a photo ID you have to present a birth certificate to get the required state ID card and obtaining a copy of that birth certificate costs money. That’s a poll tax." (cite)
Other forms less obvious have been used in many southern US states, the most famous of which were used to disenfranchise black voters for generations. These forms can be simple questioning such as being asked, prior to voting, "How many bubbles are on a bar of soap?" and other weighty questions selected by rural officials in southern states and elsewhere.
Mushrooms (people who live in the dark and eat the shit that is fed to them, IOW Fox News viewers, Republicans, Tea Baggers & Sackers, and many of today's conservatives) will argue until they are blue in the face not that this is illegal but how easy it is to get that voter ID (they always know everything about everyone's personal situation, including transportation, personal mobility, finances, etc., you know). They will tell you over and over how elections are being skewed by a vast conspiracy of illegal voters (there is ZERO evidence that this is true).
I'm writing this not to challenge any of the mushrooms about the topics they've been schooled to defend. I'd like to ask one simple question that few, if any, have asked.
If it is true that you find ANY level of voter fraud unacceptable because it can effect the outcome of an election, then what level of voter DISENFRANCHISEMENT do you find acceptable, since DENYING PEOPLE THEIR VOTE at ANY level has the EXACT SAME EFFECT - it SKEWS the outcome of the election. What level is acceptable? How many legal US citizens, denied their right to vote, do you find acceptable? Answer me.
If you expect me to take your argument seriously then you must in turn take mine seriously.
Odds are no one will bother to answer this because we all know why. Conservatives are walking stacks of shit that will lie and twist and eagerly prevent people from voting if they think it will enable their horrific fascist candidates to get into office. Even they will admit, if pressed, that lying and using underhanded tricks is the only way their candidates could gain power because whenever they tell the truth, on equal footing with a liberal candidate telling the truth, their hateful ideology is obvious to even the dullest US citizen of voting age.
Comments
As for the Filthy Liberal's question, well, that's a completely loaded question. You see, illegals will vote for your team because the Libs give them free stuff. The supposedly disenfranchised voters will also vote Democrat because anyone without an ID is most likely on some form of public assistance, and they will vote for the Libs that offer more free stuff.
I can see why the Liberals hate the idea of voter ID so much. You know you'll lose if we actually enforce it.
The correct answer to your question is no level, of either voter fraud or voter disenfranchisem ent, is acceptable. Unfortunately, it is impossible to eliminate both. The deciding factor, for me, is that voter fraud is a criminal act, disenfranchisme nt is not. I choose the lesser of two evils.
As for proof I ask how you can prove something like this without having any restrictions on the participants? I personally know many illegals that vote, quite easily, because my state does not require any kind of verification before sending out absentee ballots. They don't even have to show up at the ballot box because our government is kind enough to mail them, at the taxpayer expense of course, everything they need to vote from home. So yes, voter fraud exists and we will catch them in the act once some restrictions are put in place.
I also love the hypocrisy you Libs live by. Not once did I bring race, creed, color, or religion into my argument. You on the other hand are constantly dividing people into little groups based on those criteria. Seems like you are the racists here.
1) Incidents of voter fraud.
2) Defrauding voters does not have as wide an effect as the number of incidents of voter fraud you can cite.
You can go back, oh, 30 years.
Ball's in your court Mr. Tea Party.
(And I noted your comment elsewhere about "going after" people who leave typos behind - doesn't look like it happens too much here, aside from one or two. Go ahead and look. This stands as yet another example of a conservatives willful cognitive dissonance. You people are the dumbest creatures in the nation.)
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA635.html
(and if you read my typo post correctly you would have seen that I was asking a conservative to be more careful because you libs nitpick on every insignificant detail instead of the real issues, as evidenced by your comment about typos)
As for your article by a known right wing propagandist, he cites a handful of voter registration irregularities and finds far fewer actual cases of illegal voting. He rails about ACORN yet cites only a handful of incidents for an organization that's been around for many years with the worthy goal of facilitating registration of voters. ACORN is "leftist" because it works to help the average working man - I guess that's "leftist", eh? What a horrible thing.
Remember, voter registration and casting a vote are two different things. Since the truth is not on your side, your commentator eagerly conflates the two. Bobbleheads like yourself eagerly nod in agreement. Two different things.
The numbers themselves will prove my point. Sadly, it will only be AFTER the election (which is the conservative plan, BTW) that the numbers will become evident.
There are only two ways whackjob conservatives and filthy Republicans can win an election. 1) Misrepresent their own policies. 2) Lie about liberal policies. 3) Not mention their true agenda to the voting public. 4) Disenfranchise voters using a number of WELL DOCUMENTED techniques that have become cliche.
Your complaints of many instances of "illegal voting" is just as accurate as your fear of your pathetic simpleton rightwinger poster pals being "picked on" or "nit picked" for their ridiculous misspelled words. Clearly it's not happening. I think it's projection - you see what happens on rightwing sites when a liberal misspells words and probably have taken part in the attack on the "typo poster" with glee. You've been invited to look on this site for all of those attacks and you can't find any in the numbers that would back up your ridiculous claim.
Mark my words. December 2012 we'll find how many Americans had their civil rights violated. But then that doesn't matter to assholes like you. The ONLY thing that matters is you elect a fucking Nazi into high office who will destroy the country and enrich the coffers of the 1%. Every conservative Republican President in the last 30 yeas has pushed this country further and further down an economic, moral, and ethical drain using God, Gays, and Guns as a means to divide the populace. Your are sickening to true Americans. You people are the harbingers of the most UnAmerican generation this country has ever seen.
As for the rest, you've just proven my point. You take legitimate, well reasoned arguments and simply toss them aside because you don't like what they say. I do look forward to seeing the numbers after the election because I'm fully confident it will mean absolutely nothing. You'll get a few screamers saying their rights were violated, no one will look into any voter fraud allegations, and the lefties will create more ammunition in an attempt to make sense of your debilitating loss.
The only irrefutable proof I could possibly offer on voter fraud would be proof you collect yourself. Anything else you'll find some excuse not to listen too. I could post pictures of illegals with holding a sign they made themselves saying they vote illegally and you still wouldn't believe it unless you took the picture yourself. Stop asking me for proof you won't listen to. Go collect it yourself. Tell you what, come over to Illinois and go to any hispanic community to witness the tragedy I'm talking about. Apparently nothing else will be good enough for you.
When you get a Liberal constantly nagging on tiny, irrelevant points and refusing to acknowledge their own responsibility you know you've found the truth. Way the world works.
I notce too that you failed to answer the entire original post and prfer to dodge and weave. exactly how many people denied their rights maks up for your handufl of fraudulent votes (that handful in Pennsylvania is reprotedly NILL by the way).
That's a fatuous argument.
Not exactly a left-wing source.
You failed to cite the posters request, aside from a handful of votes. The potential lost from voter disenfranchisem ent is much larger but as Satanlite already stated, the proof will only come after the election, when it's too late to do anything. This is the Republican plan and it is sickeningly transparent.
Pay close attention to the interchange of Satanlite and Acidichotwire. A conservative raised and issue, made a false claim and it was noticed. SL did not let it pass, but held his/her feet to the fire. This is EXACTLY how an interchange between liberals and Democrats and their political opponents on the right MUST BE CARRIED out in this day and age. If you let ONE lie or a SINGLE FALSE CHARGE or FALSE ACCUSATION pass, then they have won a defacto point. They have done this for 30 years and now, as you see from AHW replies, he feels entitled to that behavior.
Not any more.
NEVER let them make a SINGLE LIE, etc., without FORCING THEM to take it back. End the interview, let the topic derail if necessary. AHW won't admit his wrong so the conversation broke down. That's fine too. Sooner or later they will learn they can't get away with their entitlement mentality and then they can admit their errors and wrong doing, and they can start fixing their own broken philosophy. Letting them get away with a single lie is the worst thing you can do, no matter how trivial it appears on the surface.
Yes, please pay close attention to the interchange. Do exactly as Newt has requested. Maybe just one of you will notice I never actually made such an accusation. I merely warned another conservative away from giving you more ammunition. The lies come from from the libs, and not just in this thread. Another article promised to leave all conservative comments alone, yet posts I've made there never show up. (((((MOD NOTE: This is a lie. The only comment ever deleted from this site from this individual was after this poster who was warned that their post would be deleted if they continued in the manner in which they were warned. This individual chose to ignore the warning. The result was deletion. Of course we can not prove this and he/she knows it. This is typical behavior of a conservative - make an accusation that can't be proved or disproved. Clever, eh?)))))))))) Use your minds people! It's incredibly easy to see through the liberal propaganda here if you just spend a split second thinking about the logic behind the argument.
And thank you Newt for proving why our current Congress can get nothing done. Conservatives bring up salient issues, Liberals make tons of false accusations (like Romney hasn't paid taxes in 10 years), and they continue to do so until productive conversations derail. Then nothing useful gets done.
On a side note, I find it incredibly humorous that you use the word "Entitled" in reference to a conservative. Now that's just plain funny
Case and Point, not one of you has responded to the question in my first post. You don't want a debate, you want a riot. I will no longer feed you trolls.
**The only comment ever deleted from this site from this individual was after this poster who was warned that their post would be deleted if they continued in the manner in which they were warned. ***
That pretty much sez it all, dumb ass. YOU were WARNED, then in typical conservative entitlement manner, you flaunted the warning believing it couldn't possibly apply to you, being an entitled conservative and all, and you got deleted. Oh, the unfairness of it all.
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